Ray Dalio of Best-Performing Hedge Fund Interview with Barron's

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May 21, 2012
Ray Dalio, who last year usurped the title of all-time best-performing hedge fund manager from George Soros, makes profitable bets based on his understanding of the world economy. He explains what he is seeing going on in the macro picture now with Barron's:

It's hard to imagine anyone navigating the rough seas of the past decade more ably than Ray Dalio, master and commander of money-management firm Bridgewater Associates, which oversees $120 billion for a roster of global clients that include foreign governments, pension funds and endowments.

The Westport, Conn.-based company is the world's largest hedge-fund firm and one of just a handful of players to place more than one fund on Barron's annual Top 100 Hedge Funds ranking. This year Bridgewater's flagship Pure Alpha II and its All Weather @12% global macro funds both make the list. Pure Alpha has tallied a three-year average return of 22.75% while All Weather gained 17.24% on that basis. BarclayHedge's index of hedge funds returned 9.05% a year in that time; the Standard & Poor's 500 gained 14.11% annually.

The Bridgewater funds make strategic bets on commodities, currencies, bonds, and equities around the world based on analysis of valuations and macroeconomic trends..Dalio, who brings an unusually broad and deep perspective to investing, recently shared his latest views with us.

Barron's: You've called the current phase of the U.S. deleveraging experience "beautiful." Explain that, please.

Dalio: Deleveragings occur in a mechanical way that is important to understand. There are three ways to deleverage. We hear a lot about austerity. In other words, pull in your belt, spend less, and reduce debt. But austerity causes less spending and, because when you spend less, somebody earns less, it causes the contraction to feed on itself. Austerity causes more problems. It is deflationary and it is negative for growth.

Restructuring the debt means creditors get paid less or get paid over a longer time frame or at a lower interest rate; somehow a contract is broken in a way that reduces debt. But debt restructurings also are deflationary and negative for growth. One man's debts are another man's assets, and when debts are written down to relieve the debtor of the burden, it has a negative effect on wealth. That causes credit to decline.

Printing money typically happens when interest rates are close to zero, because you can't lower interest rates any more. Central banks create money, essentially, and buy the assets that put money in the system for a quantitative easing or debt monetization. Unlike the first two options, this is an inflationary action and stimulative to the economy.

How is any of this "beautiful?"

A beautiful deleveraging balances the three options. In other words, there is a certain amount of austerity, there is a certain amount of debt restructuring, and there is a certain amount of printing of money. When done in the right mix, it isn't dramatic. It doesn't produce too much deflation or too much depression. There is slow growth, but it is positive slow growth. At the same time, ratios of debt-to-incomes go down. That's a beautiful deleveraging.

We're in a phase now in the U.S. which is very much like the 1933-37 period, in which there is positive growth around a slow-growth trend. The Federal Reserve will do another quantitative easing if the economy turns down again, for the purpose of alleviating debt and putting money into the hands of people.

We will also need fiscal stimulation by the government, which of course, is very classic. Governments have to spend more when sales and tax revenue go down and as unemployment and other social benefits kick in and there is a redistribution of wealth. That's why there is going to be more taxation on the wealthy and more social tension. A deleveraging is not an easy time. But when you are approaching balance again, that's a good thing.

What makes all the difference between the ugly and the beautiful?

The key is to keep nominal interest rates below the nominal growth rate in the economy, without printing so much money that they cause an inflationary spiral. The way to do that is to be printing money at the same time there is austerity and debt restructurings going on.

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